Filmmaker Costa-Gavras on politics, cinema and his new film on the Greek financial crisis
The new film from Costa-Gavras about the Greek financial crisis, Adults in the Room, has its Greek premiere on September 29. The film is based on the book of the same name by the former Greek finance minister and political dissident, Yanis Varoufakis, which recounts the strained circumstances around the 2015 Greek financial bail-out.
Costa-Gavras is the winner of two Oscars for Z (1969) and Missing (1982). With this new movie, he has created a furious, insightful and at times funny political thriller centering around the audacious Varoufkis. The veteran Greek director aims to offer some explanation of a financial world gone mad — and one of the worst crises to emerge out of the EU financial crisis. DW asked the director a few questions about the new film.
DW: Adults in the Room is based on the non-fiction book by Yanis Varoufakis. What made you think that this book would make a good movie?
Costa-Gavras: The book had a strong main character speaking about a specific period of time and what happened to him. It was really helpful that Varoufakis had made a lot of recordings and a lot of notes. So I was able to verify everything he says in the book by reading his speeches and by listening to what others have said.
Yanis Varoufakis speaking in May 2019 before he won election to the European Parliament with the anti-establishment MeRA25 party in Greece
In your other movies you often take the perspective of ordinary people to show how dictatorships function, for example in Latin America. Why did you change the perspective in Adults in the Room?
There are two main characters in the movie: Greece and Europe. Each defends their side forcibly, aggressively and, in my opinion, violently. And in a way I think that everyone is right. Even people who look like the bad guys are right because they’re defending something very serious.
The German finance minister, [Wolfgang] Schäuble, is a good example. He doesn’t trust the Greeks, or the old Greeks at least. There are new, up-and-coming people who he listens to, but their ideas are completely divorced from reality — so he becomes very negative. He also knows that other Greek governments have cheated for years so he believes he is defending the euro. In fact, he is essentially defending the European economy and the German economy. So for me there are no good guys and no bad guys. Everyone defends their own ideas and the things that are important to them. That’s very important in the movie: there are no good guys or bad guys.
Read more: Political thriller master Costa-Gavras honored by European Film Academy
Does that mean there are no winners at the end?
No, there are no winners. Everyone loses something. What we really lose is a strong Europe. We cannot have a Europe only made up of economic problems. You really have to look at the personal stories because everything that happened in this period, like trying to bring Greece out of debt, really didn’t change anything. It was very negative for most people. The debt is still there, higher than ever before — and the people are still suffering. Nobody speaks about the 500,000 people with degrees who left. Lots of them went to Germany, the USA, Canada, and they will never come back. This is a huge loss for Greece. And the majority are still living in a terrible situation.
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Costa-Gavras, the master of political thrillers
Committed to political issues
Two characteristics are typical for Costa-Gavras’ oeuvre. For one, he always focuses on controversial political topics. Secondly, he never ignores the expectations of his audience. Costa-Gavras is the master of political thrillers and his movies are depressive and entertaining at the same time.
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Costa-Gavras, the master of political thrillers
The worldwide success of ‘Z’
In 1969, Costa-Gavras achieved his breakthrough with his third film. The thriller “Z” tells the story of a political struggle against the opposition, the justice system and the media with oppressive means. Although the plot is set in a nameless country, it’s quite clear that it’s about the military regime in Greece.
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Costa-Gavras, the master of political thrillers
Born in Greece, but settled in France
Born as Konstantínos Gavrás in 1933 in Greece, the future director immigrated to France at the age of 21. In 1965, he made his debut with the film “The Sleeping Car Murderers” starring Simone Signoret and Yves Montand (picture). The film starts out as a thriller, but at the end, a high-ranking police officer turns out to be the villain.
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Costa-Gavras, the master of political thrillers
Costa-Gavras established a genre
Following his worldwide hit “Z,” the director helped establish the genre of the popular political thriller. His suspenseful thrillers featuring contemporary and historical themes became his trademark. Costa-Gavras’ fifth film “State of Siege” (1972) depicts a country that oppresses its own citizens — but this time, it’s Uruguay.
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Costa-Gavras, the master of political thrillers
Romy Schneider and Yves Montand
Once in a while, the director turns to lighter material. In a profound and elegant way, his movie “Womanlight” starring Romy Schneider and Yves Montand tells the story of an incidental encounter between a woman and a man. Both of them have lost their partners and are searching for consolation.
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Costa-Gavras, the master of political thrillers
Oscar for ‘Missing’
“Missing” from 1981 tells the story of an American who has disappeared in the chaos of the Chilean military regime. His father (Jack Lemmon) is looking for him. “Missing” was awarded an Oscar but came under fire, nonetheless, when critics claimed that Costa-Gavras had exploited political topics in a mainstream film.
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Costa-Gavras, the master of political thrillers
Looking at the Middle East
After his adventure in Hollywood, Costa-Gavras returned to France for his next project. “Hanna K.” (1983) takes a look at yet another crisis region, the Middle East, and the continuing conflict between Israel and Palestine. An American-Jewish lawyer portrayed by Jill Clayburg gets drawn into the conflict.
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Costa-Gavras, the master of political thrillers
The other America
Five years later, Costa-Gavras dealt with another controversial topic. In “Betrayed,” he depicts far-right sentiments such as racism, anti-Semitism, the Holocaust denial and Christian fundamentalism in American society.
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Costa-Gavras, the master of political thrillers
Armin Mueller-Stahl in ‘Music Box’
Costa-Gavras’ following film was about the Holocaust and the Nazi era. “Music Box” (1989) tells the deeply moving story of a lawyer (Jessica Lange) who denies the accusation that her father (Armin Mueller-Stahl) was part of a fascist Hungarian special unit during World War II. Here, the director interweaves the present and the past, the political and the private.
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Costa-Gavras, the master of political thrillers
A film based on Rolf Hochhuth’s ‘The Deputy’
After directing two more films, the director once again turned to a German topic: He created a film adaptation of Rolf Hochhuth’s controversial drama “The Deputy.” The German co-production titled “Amen” was shot in Romania with Ulrich Tukur and Ulrich Mühe, two renowned German actors.
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Costa-Gavras, the master of political thrillers
The consequences of globalization
During the last few years, Costa-Gavras seems to have slowed down when it comes to movie production. But the director remains an alert observer of political and social trends. His drama “The Ax” (2005) deals with contemporary work environments and the excesses of globalization.
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Costa-Gavras, the master of political thrillers
A journey across Europe
Costa-Gavras focused on refugees back in 2009. The film “Eden Is West” tells the story of a young man called Elias (Riccardo Scamarcio) who gets stranded on the Greek coast and is subsequently forced to flee across Europe.
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Costa-Gavras, the master of political thrillers
Chaos on financial markets
Costa-Gavras’ latest film “Capital” from 2012 deals with the turbulence of financial markets. Marc Tourneuil, portrayed by Gad Elmaleh, becomes the chairman of a private French bank after his predecessor dies while playing golf. Even in this film, Costa-Gavras remained faithful to his principles by critically exploring contemporary issues in an entertaining way.
Is Yanis Varoufakis a hero?
No. He is not a hero for me. He is someone who is able to speak about those times and he writes very well. And he has a lot of experience. I don’t touch his personal life, I don’t touch who he really is. He is there for one reason only: to defend Greece.
Adults in the Room is shot like a political thriller and told in a realistic way. But you also put in a few grotesque, absurd scenes like a dance of the European Commission with Alexis Tsiprias.
When I’m making a movie, I’m making a show. And I’m trying to say things in the show. It’s not an academic speech. It’s not for the politicians. It’s a show! I’m trying to tell stories. The dancing scene is a good example. They were trying to convince Alexis Tsiprias to vote and the negotiations lasted the whole night. Nobody knows exactly what was said. So the only way to show that was by creating a dance scene: an elegant cinematic solution; a metaphor.
Former Greek prime minister Alex Tsipris
And the thing with the fish? Tsiprias feeling like a swordfish on the hook?
The fish scene was a metaphor too. This is something the prime minister said. I was surprised that a prime minister would compare himself to a swordfish. In a way, it really is tragic. Where is the power? Where is the democracy? That’s what these details are really about.
So Greece suffered under the “the dictatorship of austerity” imposed by Germany?
In 2010 the Germans sold submarines to Greece. And what did they do so they could sell them? They paid the minister. One of them even went to prison later. So I think they were really not very nice — the European countries, I mean. And also because they knew after 2005-07 [Greek debt crisis] that the debt was so bad they should really get rid of it. That would mean not selling the debt on, but trying to find solutions. They did let it go, but after a while they discovered — all the Europeans, but particularly the Germans — that they had to stop it. It was just too high.
“Adults in the Room” in production
As Varoufakis said, “You cannot spend more on the debt than the country’s income.”
You know that managing the economy of a country is like managing the economy of a house: You make a lot of money in a year. Let’s say $50,000 every year. You cannot spent $100,000. It’s impossible. After a while it will come back to bite you.
What is your hope for Greek people now?
The Greek government and the European government will find solutions to get out of the prison which debt is. This debt —Madame Lagarde [former IMF chief] says it several times in the movie — simply cannot be paid. “There is not enough money in Greece unless you sell everything. So you have to … I don’t know how, but you have to find a solution for that.” Because the debt is going up every year.
Gavras’ Oscar-winning film “Z”
You’ve been in the film industry for decades. What do you think the future of cinema will be like?
Cinema is going through a huge revolution. Look what’s happening with Netflix, for example. A positive part of this is that everyone can watch movies. Everyone in their own homes, in small villages or big cities, everywhere. And we don’t pay much money, which wasn’t possible before. On the other hand, this means the movies are hidden away and can be forgotten about very quickly. You don’t hear anything about them again and it’s difficult to find out information like how many people have watched those movies. That is the negative part of services like Netflix.
But on the plus side: everyone can make a movie. If you have a camera and a couple of friends you can make a movie.
What do you want the viewers of Adults in a Room to take home?
That’s up to them. I don’t want to teach them. I tell stories in my movies just like I would with friends: I just tell the story, I don’t tell them when to laugh. It’s exactly like that as a director. We ask questions about this and that. And if we have good questions, then that’s even better. We don’t have the solutions.
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The Greek debt crisis: A brief history
Greek crisis takes form
On the heels of a global financial crisis, Greece’s then-prime minister, George Papandreou, revealed in 2009 that the budget deficit was over 12 percent, double what it was previously thought. It was later revised to 15 percent, far exceeding the eurozone’s 3-percent limit. The revelation prompted credit rating agencies to downgrade Greece’s status, making it hard for Athens to get financial help.
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The Greek debt crisis: A brief history
Austerity sparks unrest
In a bid to help Athens out, the EU and IMF agreed to bailout Greece in 2010. The program required austerity measures to cut the budget deficit, a move that didn’t sit well with many Greeks. In response, anti-austerity protesters organized nationwide strikes and demonstrations to protest the measures and, at times, clashed with police. Mass protests took off in 2011 and continued for years.
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The Greek debt crisis: A brief history
Rise of the fringe
Resentful of growing unemployment and poverty, a majority of Greeks in 2012 voted for fringe parties that opposed the bailout and the austerity measures that came with it. The first election resulted in no clear winner and set the stage for another vote. After the second election, the center-right New Democracy was tasked with forming a new government. The party was committed to the bailout.
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The Greek debt crisis: A brief history
Crash course
In 2015, Greeks handed the left-wing Syriza party an anti-austerity mandate in snap elections, putting Athens on a crash course with Brussels. In June, Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras controversially announced a referendum on EU bailout terms. On June 30, Greece became the first developed economy in the world to default on an IMF bailout. Athens imposed capital controls to stop capital flight.
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The Greek debt crisis: A brief history
Turning point
The bailout referendum resulted in a rejection of EU terms, with 61 percent voting against a new rescue program. But that didn’t stop Tsipris’ government from agreeing to new terms with Brussels after Greece’s then-Finance Minister Yanis Varoufakis stepped down. It allowed Greece to avert an exit from the eurozone and paved the way for a new bailout program amounting to €86 million ($98 million).
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The Greek debt crisis: A brief history
Road to recovery
As part of the 2015 bailout program, Greece adopted economic reforms, including cutting public spending and privatizing state assets. Two years later, the IMF urged Brussels to ease its bailout program terms and provide extensive debt relief, describing Greece’s debt as unsustainable. In order to help Greece meets its bailout terms, Tsipras agreed to extend tax and pension reforms.
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The Greek debt crisis: A brief history
End of an era?
In August 2018, Greece officially exited its bailout program, with EU officials calling it the “beginning of a new chapter.” EU Commissioner Pierre Moscovici said Greeks “may not feel that their situation has yet improved much,” but the EU would continue “to work with you and for you.” However, with high unemployment and rampant poverty, some observers have cast doubt on the bailout’s success.